Dog park

[from Joe Martin]

Matt Broxterman, one of my favorite neighbors, has started a Yahoo Group for people who have dogs and would like to join him in getting a dog park established somewhere in Petworth. He has a specific place in mind.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PetworthDogs/

If you have a dog and want to consider working with him on the dog park issue, please join the group.

Get to know Matt and Bandit, who hails from Petsmart over on the Potomac Yards Mall, the same place I picked up HRH Harry, my cat.

Tell your ANC commissioners what we can do to be helpful.

Joseph Martin
ANC 4C09 Commissioner / ANC 4C Vice Chair
Petworth
202-309-1817 cell

Comments

[mjbrox]

If you have not already, please join the petworthdogs group.

I think that the piece of land you are talking about is actually owned by the National Park system. If that is the case, we will not have very good lucking gettig a dog park there

[Erin]

I think that area off of Grant Circle is the perfect place for a dog park.

[Scott]

Reading through this great comment string, I'd like to throw in my two or three cents as a Petworth dog owner:

1) In addition to 14th and Upshur which serves folks well on one edge of Petworth, is anyone interested in trying to support a low-fence dog friendly area in the unused park triangle between Grant Circle, Upshur and 5th street? It's never used now and with an attractive, 3-4 foot iron rod fence around it to keep dogs out of the road, I think it would be a great supplement, perhaps distributing some of the ballpark activity and providing a more accessible park for the east side of Petworth.

2) Capitol Hill has an interesting precedent of allowing unleashed dogs to roam in Congressional Cemetary. A Washington Post article (a couple years back) described how the park had become plagued with drug sales and crime until the dogs were allowed in, bringing increased activity that made the park unappealing for this element. I'm not saying that 14th & Upshur is run down - I'm saying having people actively out and about and mingling is a better deterrent to crime than a patrol car going by once an hour. And if 1 in 3 residents with dogs in the area is out and about, that sounds like a win for everyone.

3)I go by the Upshur & 14th park a couple times a day and either observe that no one is using it or dog owners are using it. Usually, this is before the work day or just after, not interfering with afternoon recess or after school games. When I have seen a ballgame being played, I've never seen a dog owner interfering. The adjacent soccer field and interference with soccer games isn't an issue because it's not fenced-in so dog owners arn't using it.

[John]

Rather than start your own independent effort in support of dog parks, dog owners, and the pooches themselves, I recommend that you join up with existing initiatives.

The DC Dog Owners Group (DCDOG) has an active yahoo! group. My wife and I attended some meetings when it was first formed a few years ago. In the interim, they have helped craft language for proposed legislation, met with representatives from DC Parks and Recreation, held park clean-ups, and sponsored other advocacy events.

But if you want to go it alone, that's cool too.

[Erin]

A comment about the “dirt-barren wedge” that is the 17th & S St park, and why I think our community would be lucky to have our own “dirt barren wedge.” I lived right around the corner from that park 10 years ago before the neighborhood reclaimed it as a dog park. At that time it was nasty and scary and unused by anyone except for the drunks that slept on the benches and left their liquor bottles all over the surrounding sidewalk. The perimeter was partially surrounded by shrubs that you couldn’t see through and didn’t want to walk to close to -- all right in the middle of a thriving neighborhood.

I was not involved in the process, so I don’t know the details, but my perspective as an interested observer (watching, reading notices posted around the areas etc.) indicated that at some point the neighborhood got involved to clean up the park and make it something the neighborhood could use. They must have worked with the city to do the big jobs, but I also saw citizens out there doing a lot of the work. Now every time I go by I notice that it is being well used by lots of people with their dogs.

I think about this a lot when I am walking home from the metro – sometimes later than I should. I often think how nice it would be if the wedge of park space to the Southeast of Grant Circle (for example) – in which I have never ever seen a person -- was a dog park, and I could expect to see various neighbors with their dogs out there when I walked home in the evenings.

Last point, New York City manages to find space in its overused jam-packed parks for dog runs so this should not present a challenge to less dense Washington, DC.

[Kevin]

For you DC newbies, the Chardonnay Lady story was the big, if short live, story of its day. The good news...the chardonnay lady controversy spawned some corrective legislation in 1998, sponsored, of course, by everybody's favorite party girl, Carol Schwartz:

Act 12-493 Opened Alcoholic Beverage Containers Amendment Act of 1998, [Bill 12-612], 45 DCR 8430, pub. December 4, 1998

Petworth's Favorite Law Librarian,
Mrs. Jack Morton

[Joseph Martin]

Oy, vey! And all I'm thinking of when I suggest people consider Petworth Dogs is yet another avenue to get people out of their houses and into the streets (and dog parks) and making the neighborhoods safer by having more people out and about and lingering and chatting and strolling and watching the streets and saying hello to strangers and meeting each other and tightening community bonds across all kinds of lines (race, age, class, GLBT, etc.)...which is what you see at DOG PARKS.

And that we'd have dog parks, doesn't mean there's not room for other ways of using the green space that's all over DC.

Good God, this sounds like a dialogue amongst card-carrying members of the Kalorama Civic Association, aka N.I.M.B.Y.

Belated Shana Tova!

Joe Martin

ps Watch those margueritas on the front porch! I'm a friend of Dupont's "Chardonnay Lady," as she was known for years, arrested while sitting on the front steps of her brownstone on summer eve' enjoying a glass of Chardonnay. My friend, an executive with Microsoft, was carted off, handcuffed by MPD. It took her some months to get over the humiliation and anger she felt. MPD has assured me it no longer locks up Chardonnay ladies...or gentlemen, we hope.

[Amy C]

Holy Moly!!!

Did someone swallow a bunch of sour grapes this morning?

[Megan]

If no one is using the park space when the people with their dogs show up to use it(which is most often the case at 14th and Upshur and 14th and Allison), then how are we "negatively affecting the rights of other people to use the same land"? I'm happy to share the space. If there are kids playing baseball or football or whatever then I won't take my dog off leash. Or if a group of kids show up, I would be happy to leave. I'm not disputing the fact that children in our neighborhood need safe space to play. It would be great to see more of them using the great field at 14th and Upshur. But this is not what is happening. Instead of sharing the open space to maximize the utility of the land (and the tax dollars that contributed to cleaning it up), it is going unused,and in my opinion, is being wasted.

[mjbrox]

I do not understand the diffrence between a Baseball field and Dog park.

Baseball fields are there for some one who engages in a particular activity.

We use to use the baseball field for running our dogs and would leave if some one wanted to play ball.

Do you have a problem with
Baseball
skate parks
ect

Now the field is locked and no one can use it.

What sense does that make?

[AJS]

I'm sorry some take offense at my observation that some dog owners have a sense of entitlement and can be selfish. I sincerely did not mean to accuse anyone here, but it is something I've noticed recently, and not just in DC.

Someone wrote: "I think that all we're asking for is equal access to the public park space that is in the neighborhood."

Respectfully, you're not asking for equal access. I have no problem with you, your partner, your children, etc. enjoying the heck out of any park in the city. Go for it! But what you want is the right to engage in a particular activity -- running your dogs unleashed -- that negatively affects the rights of other people to use that same land.

[Shannon]

Hi --I am a dog owner in Petworth. I actually take my dog to an unofficial dog park in Brightwood. My husband and I are huge advocates of creating official dog parks in the city. We'd love to approach the Mayorial candidates about supporting an official dog park policy. There is a huge constituency of DC residents who care about this issue. No, it's not a pressing, social problem, but it's important to a lot of people.

For myself and the other dog owners I know -- it's not that we don't care about all greenspace in the city or want separate places for our dogs to play "just because." We just deal with so many misguided complaints from individuals who also use these spaces, that creating separate areas seems like the only solution. I'm curious as to the rest of the contents of the blog posting you referenced.

At our dog park, we regularly pick up not just our pup's poo but other people's trash. Hands down, there is more trash left over from soccer practice or games than what our dogs leave behind. And with dog parks, there is peer pressure to clean up after your dog verses individuals walking down the street with their dog who think no one will notice some more waste beside the sidewalk.

I also take my dog to a nearby trail in Rock Creek Park. In two years, I have probably encountered 10-15 people on the trail -- almost all of them dog owners. It's these kinds of daily observations that make dog owners question why it's such a big deal when they congregate with other dog owners and dogs in what appears to be an unused public area.

I have met most of the people in my neighborhood thanks to my dog. Although I don't live in Brightwood, the dogpark friends I have there are the closest thing you can get to "a small town neighborly" atmosphere here in DC.

In the past three weeks, my husband and I have noticed a lot more crime on our street -- just a few streets over another shooting just occurred. It's the first time we've really begun to question our decision to move to this neighborhood.

While dog parks aren't exactly going to address these sorts of concerns, they do bring neighbors together. And when neighbors come together, it creates an opportunity to make their community better. While this blog provides a sense of community, it doesn't even compare to meeting a neighbor, in this case, a fellow dog owner, face to face.

[Bill]

Re: one of Adam's early comments, I don't think Matt meant criminals were running amok in that park or any other, just that a chance for more good folks to come out of their homes more and interact in the public realm (thus deterring crime in general) was being wasted.

My two cents - I don't have a dog, but I think compact park spaces are quite useful as dog parks and likely will never really be particularly conducive for human activity otherwise. So I don't quite understand the either/or banter going on. Esp. if we're talking about establishing a single dog park.

And I have to say, that little dig at Commissioner Joe Martin (I assume?) is ridiculous, wrong-headed and borders on being out of line.

Bill.

[Megan]

AJS perhaps you are the one who should consider moving to the suburbs since you seem unwilling to share public space with your neighbors who have dogs. I strongly disagree with your comment that many dog owners feel entitled to something. I think that all we're asking for is equal access to the public park space that is in the neighborhood.

[mjbrox]

All we are asking for is a small fenced in area that we could use for our dogs to run around And the fact that dog owners see unused park land further frustrates the fact that there is not a place that we can use with out getting ticketed or thrown off.

[Adam]

An excellent point by my esteemed neighbor Kevin.

[AJS]

I have been to dog parks. I'm familiar with the one on 17th St. in Dupont and lived next door to the one in Adams Morgan behind Mama Ayesha's.

While I don't necessarily oppose a small area for dogs, I do oppose ceding a wide-ranging park because once dogs come in they take over the whole area. Every dog owner thinks his or her dog is just the cutest, friendliest thing that ever walked. Oh, and I'm sure every owner cleans up his dog's business. (Except, peculiarly, those owners who let their dogs do their business in my front yard.)

Typical of many dog owners in cities is the sense of entitlement that they should be free to run their dog wherever they choose, regardless of the rights of others. To this notion I say: Maybe they should move to the suburbs and get their own yard.

[Kevin]

I don't quite agree with Adam on this one. It's NEVER a trade-off between dogs and people. Why...because dog parks are not for dogs, they are for dog owners(AKA tax paying residents). Having a space to play with your dog, unleashed, is no more or no less of an activity than playing baseball. This, in my opinion, is how the request for dog park space should be presented. This doesn't even get to the issue of the huge surplus of public land in our neighborhood that is currently underused (and probably full of trash).

[Adam]

Again, I support dog parks. I enjoy the one in Adams-Morgan. As for 17th & S, well that's a dirt-barren wedge in the middle of a thriving neighborhood. Somehow I don't think dogs are responsible for the turn-around there.

Proper maintainance and safety for all parks is a higher priority than special accomodations for dog use. The uses listed above -- baseball, swimming, etc. -- refer to facilities used by people, not animals.

Finally, I think the assertion that proponents of dog parks support cleaner, better parks for everyone, should be questioned. For example, the Petworth dog park group does not sound very community-orientated or necessarily interested in improving existing parks. I copied this from their board, in which the writer laments that a park is being used for soccer and football games:

"So pass the word around, but we shouldn't let anyone at DPR know what's up. I suggest we keep working to get a real dog park, a space we don't have to share."

(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PetworthDogs/message/1)

Our venerable neighborhood commissioner, who is nothing if not a joiner, supports this group and is a member. These are the issues most important to our neighborhood?!

[mjbrox]

Well, this is just silly.

I don’t have kids, but I pay for parks that only little kids can use and I encourage it.

This comment bothers me the most

” don't like to walk on piles of dog manure or be attacked by unleashed dogs, "friendly" or "unfriendly."

Have you ever been to a dog park? The group of us at 14th and Upsure ALWAYS cleaned up poop and there were almost never unfriendly or mean dogs.

Next comment for me to pick apart
” relatively few dog owners among us”

I guess that all depends on what it is relative to considering that 1 in 3 DC households have a dog.

Now, as far a drinking Martini’s on the porch? Well…I think we can all agree that it would be great if people spent more time out in our neighborhood. I would like to see more people staying close to shop, eat, play, run, go to dog park, and hang out on the porch.

There are parks set up through out DC that are only for small groups of people. Here are some examples:

Horse areas in Rock creek
Basketball courts
Baseball Fields
Pools ( I do use the free Pools)
Skate Parks ( I whish I had one near me as a kid)
Playgrounds for toddlers

In no way am I saying that these parks should not exist, I am just saying that dog owners deserve a place to let their dogs play.

If you have never been to an official dog park, I invite you to come with me to Shirlington one Saturday morning. You will see what a well planed dog park can and should be.

[Erin]

Did someone propose having martinis delivered to people who are sitting on their porches? I definitely support that!

I also strongly support dog parks – and I don’t even have a dog. I think 1) dogs deserve to have a place to run free, 2) people ought to be encouraged to interact with their dogs rather than just keeping them locked in the back yard, 3) a park that can be counted on to always be churning with the activity of neighbors interacting with each other and their dogs makes the neighborhood safer, and 4) active dog parks add to the feeling of living is a neighborhood/community.

I don’t think our neighborhood is so short on space that we can’t find an area to designate as a dog park.

Finally, in order for a dog park to continue to have the support of a neighborhood, people must generally pick up after their dogs. I would hope that would apply to the potential park being discussed here.

There is a great example of an underused and scary park space being converted into a well used dog park (maybe unofficially so) at the intersection of 17th St and S. In this case, neighbors came together and put a lot of work into clearing off the trash and unkempt shrubbery etc. and turned the space into a great neighborhood asset.

[AJS]

I agree with Adam. People over dogs, everytime. In the city there's a limited amount of greenspace. In the country there's not this problem but, well, we're in the city.

That said, I don't oppose a small dog park, like the one in Adams Morgan near the bridge. Remember, any such place must be reserved for dogs only because many people, including me, don't like to walk on piles of dog manure or be attacked by unleashed dogs, "friendly" or "unfriendly."

[Adam]

And once there was a car stolen on my street that, if I had been drinking a martini on my porch, I might have been able to stop. But I'm not advocating delivering martinis to everyone who agrees to sit on their porch more often.

Whether you have a dog or not, in either case it's people who use parks. Dogs go with their owners. Your dog doesn't really have an opinion. It's you who wants your dog to use the park.

All I'm saying is we should consider why park usage has declined in general; why people who don't have dogs stay away. I'd hazard a guess that it's because some of the lesser-used parks aren't very clean, seem dark and somewhat intimidating, and aren't kept up well.

In an odd way, proponents of dog parks are capitalizing on this misuse -- using crime, as you did, for example -- as a reason to make special arrangements for dogs. Well, I don't pay taxes for you to walk your dog. I pay for good lighting, good park maintainence, and good policing. I don't want to delegate responsibility to dog walkers to help make the city's parks safe.

If the parks themselves and their general use is what matters most, which is what I contend, let's focus on beautification, adequate maintainence, and safety before we make special accomodations for the relatively few dog owners among us.

Save the extra liability risks and space requirements of dog parks for when neglected parks are once more place for everyone to enjoy. That's what I mean by people first -- dog owners included.

[mjbrox]

A couple of days after we were locked out a car was stolen at a time when we would have normally been there.

Why should people always win over dogs? I see parks that hardly every get used all over DC. Dog owners Will end up utilizing their park more than any other user, come rain or shine.

We deserve dog parks in DC.

[Adam]

I've seen the park at 14th and Upshur St. used for ball games and soccer, in particular. The park, where I go at least a few times a month, does not strike me as a place where "criminals run around unchecked." Using crime as a reason to establish dog parks seems a bit misguided to me.

That being said, I am a dog owner and support the concept of dog parks, provided that parks are for people first. The provisional dog park in Adams-Morgan seems like a good example of how a park can be made more attractive for people with and without dogs. It's a large park, though, where free-running dogs can be kept well away from the people-only parts.

If it is a contest for limited space, I think people ought to win out over dogs. Improved lighting, grounds maintainence, and police patrols make parks better for everyone and should be be the priority.